Nick, Have to disagree there. They were originally designed for toolholding, more specifically Drills / reamers. I use them for a lot of workholding as do many others and they are great , but workholding is not what they were designed for. There are far better collets than ER for workholding. even as a milling chuck they are far from the best , they are super at taking axial loads, but not at their strongest with Radial loads. I like them but am not blind to their shortcomings.

Found the video on you tube, It is called "Guhring Diver Tool smash". In it the guy from Guhring mentions that the ER system is at its best when the loads are Axial, not so good at Radial forces. Which is what I said. We as hobbyists don't need to consider such things There are better end mill holding systems than ER ,and there are FAR better workholding collet systems than ER . They are great for our needs, very versatile,I like them.

Sorry Raymond but how do you work out that a collet tightened up onto work one side and two tapers the other side cannot accept radial loads ?

Since the ball nose end mill has a ball at its tip, it is widely used to create big corner radiuses, full grooving, contour milling, shallow slotting, pocketing etc. The ball nose end mills with smaller diameters are used for engraving on the workpiece. Due to its ability to create great round edges, it is also used to create excellent 3D contouring.

The ball nose end mill with more flutes will deliver smooth surface compared to 2 flute end mill therefore it is used mostly on soft materials like aluminum, wood etc.

In this article we will discuss what are the ball nose end mills, what are its functions, how it is manufactured and what are the main differences between 2 flute ball nose end mill and 4 flute ball nose end mills.

In which case I think I need to go notify the CNC Co at the end of the road who work solely for Boeing and Airbus that despite spending 5M on new machinery over the last 3 years they have adopted the wrong tool holding and workholding systems

I did that and the video didn't have any commentary, just video of the end mill in action. Nor did it mention collets of any sort?

Different materials produce different types of chips; the harder material is brittle in nature which is why it creates smaller brittle chips. Therefore, it requires cutting tools having fewer number of flutes to quickly escape the chips. This is why 2 flute end mills were commonly used.

The ball nose end mills are used as roughing tools but their primary usage is for dies and molds where 3D contouring, corner picking, slotting or profiling with a semi-finished or finished surface is required.

Nick, Have to disagree there. They were originally designed for toolholding, more specifically Drills / reamers. I use them for a lot of workholding as do many others and they are great , but workholding is not what they were designed for. There are far better collets than ER for workholding. even as a milling chuck they are far from the best , they are super at taking axial loads, but not at their strongest with Radial loads. I like them but am not blind to their shortcomings.

Before knowing the difference between the two flutes in a ball mill, it is necessary to understand what is the basic function of flutes in any end mill. The flutes are spiral grooves, with sharp edges in an end mill’s surface. Its basic function is forming chips of material and its evacuation during milling. The harder material will require more flutes and softer material will require less flutes.

Wear time – The longer the tool, the more prone it is to wearing. But comparative to more number of flutes, the 4 flute ball nose end mill shows wear time because its ball shape provides smooth rounded contact with the workpiece and also offers less resistance to material on longer operation.

John, If the company you mention does work for Airbus AND Boeing then there is NO WAY they will be using ER for workholding. AND I would willingly put money on it. [and money means a lot to me ]

Following factors affect the workmanship with ball nose end mill having any number of flute. Therefore, it is necessary to consider the factors while making a selection.

The ball nose end mill with 4 flutes will increase productivity because of increased feed rate. This is because 4 flutes are efficient to create longer chips and evacuates them easily in softer materials.

The number of flutes in ball nose end mill affects heavily on the tools ability to clear chips. The more flute ball nose end mill have, the shorter the flute length which may clog the flute and break the tool.

With a suitable lathe, if ER collets don't appeal, then the Burnerd Multisize system is a good alternative (says he who uses both systems, with the Multisize collets used solely for workholding).

John, I didn't work anything out. I can only go by the Guhring tests [ unless the world class company that is Guhring got it wrong ] The video on you tube provided the evidence. So its not a case of "no fact " .Just type in Guhring Diver end mill into you tube and its in one of the videos by Guhring. And I did not say that they couldn't accept Radial loads, only that the system is not at is strongest with such loads. And it is a fact that the ER system is bettered by hydraulic or shrink fit. Any heavy milling with end mills that iv'e seen are all shrink fit or Hydraulic.

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The manufacturing process of ball nose end mills are same as carbide end mills except that the grinding wheel, installed on CNC machine, consists of diamond embedding. Because of the sophistication of the tool, multiple grinding wheels are used that has varying grits, diameter and profile shapes depending upon the tool’s design.

I'm certainly not knocking them as I use them a lot I think they are great I know a lot of cnc lathes with live tooling use them but for rigidity ,hydraulic or shrink fit is better. and before anyone starts I know we as hobbyists dont need to bother about such things. I'm only reiterating the fact that A] They were designed first and foremost as Toolholders and B] They are at their best Drilling / Reaming.

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Performance on soft and hard material – This is the biggest advantage of all. The 4 flute ball nose end mill works on many hard materials and works on soft material. The 2 flute end mill is unable to evacuate longer chips produced by soft materials which is 4 flute ball nose end mill exceeds the 2 flute ball mill.

Diesel Renishaw touch probe bits Filament Dryers Lathe vibration in workshop Burdett 70 Mk2 Surface Grinder Zeamons Orrery brushless DC motor for mini lathe Allchin Crown Stay Creworks Chinese Mini Lathe – interesting Jekyll’s “Pendulous” Engine c 1870

The cutting depth on a workpiece is dependent on the contact length of ball nose end mill. The length of the tool ensures precise cutting on a workpiece and prevents from overhanging. To calculate the tool’s length, multiply the cutter dia by 5.

John, If the company you mention does work for Airbus AND Boeing then there is NO WAY they will be using ER for workholding. AND I would willingly put money on it. [and money means a lot to me ]

But recently, users found with their experience that 4 flute end mills are more beneficial for them as compared to the 2 flute end mills. This is because not only 4 flute end mills cover wide range of harder materials, but also works on soft materials and delivers smoother finish on hard and soft materials where 2 flute end mills fail. This is the main reason CNC machinists around the globe are now utilizing 4 flute end mills on materials with acceptable hardness range. This in turn has saved much production cost.

The 2 flute end mills are great cutting tools that delivers lower chip load and works on harder material. Comparatively, the 4 flute end mills are attracting popularity due to its versatility and ability to perform many functions compared to 2 flute end mills.

Taking part of a statement out of context and calling it "tosh" isn't really helpful. ER collets were designed for toolholding, and workholding is only a by-product that happens to suit our needs. If you read back in EIM in 2003, you will find that I described how to make an ER32 collet for the Myford lathe, so I can hardly be accused of preaching Thou Shalt Not Use ER collets for other purposes!

As far as I know Airbus & Boeing would not specify how a part was held for machining, why would they? The aerospace dwgs I work with may specify manufacturing 'best practice' but they don't go into minute detail.

OH MY !!!, I made a mistake and the video is NOT by Guhring. but to get back to the jist of the debate, the lad does say what I already said, the ER is NOT at it's best with Radial loads. because it was originally designed for Axial loads. The high performance chuck is I think similar to the ones made by Schunk. and also Albrecht. There is another video about the HPC which I will try to locate to get the title. it also touches on the Schunk shrink fit and the Albrecht hydraulic

Surface roughness – Surface roughness is the irregularities on a workpiece. The 4 flutes ball nose end mill mills the material with higher surface roughness because firstly it has round shapes providing smooth surface contact and increased flute allow uneven surfaced material to evacuate easily.

Also known as the ball mills or full radius end mills, the ball nose end mill is cutting tools in which the radius of the nose is half of the tool’s diameter. With this function, the ball nose end mill delivers a curved smooth surface on a workpiece with a constant single radius at the end of the tool without any straight edge.

None that would cover the range of each ER collet., but for a specific Ø then some of the "C " Series or The B42 series all these are available in round hex and square [ and depending on which size ] can cater for larger Ø's than the ER system which max's out at 34 mm Ø also the mentioned series can all be bought as Blanks There are also a range from Micro centric [ I think thats the name ] that are also available in Round , Square and Hex I've yet to see an ER in square or Hex. I think the ER system is the jack of all trades but is the best at only one thing and that is Drilling / Reaming.for which it was originally designed for. But like I said I like them and use them a lot and i'm certainly not knocking them.

Surely the limitation will be the collet holder or machine bearings and as Neil has pointed out milling loads in the axial plane are far higher.

Like any other cutting tool available in the market, the ball nose end mill is also available in the market in a wide range of flutes. The ball nose end mill with 2 flutes and 4 flutes are most commonly used.

Neil, thats exactly the point I made. They are at their best when dealing with Axial loads [what they were designed for ] Guhring did a series of tests on the new "Diver " end mill and used various clamping methods and out of the 3 [Hydraulic , Shrink fit and ER] the ER was the least satisfactory. Of course they are fine for what we use them for but that doesn't take away from the fact that they were originally designed for Tool holding. and specifically,Drills and reamers. [axial loads ].

Chip evacuation – The 4 flute ball nose end mills is better than 2 flute ball nose end mill because it evacuates harder as well as soft material chips. The hard material breaks into smaller brittle chips like metal, bronze etc. while softer materials like wood or aluminum etc. chips into longer flexible material. The ball nose with 4 flutes evacuates them all quickly.

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The function of 2 flutes in the ball nose end mill is creating slots and grooves on softer materials like wood or aluminum. Because the 2 flute ball nose end mill can also be applied vertically on the workpiece, it can also plunge. However, the ball nose end mill with 2 flutes is unable to work similar to 4 flute end mills.

Vertical accuracy – The 4 flute ball nose end mill are longer than 2 flutes so they can plunge more deeply into the material and offer precise accuracy comparatively. The 2 flute ball nose end mill have lesser cutting depth due to less flute which is why it is unable to plunge deeper and accurately.

The modern times, specialized cutting tools are preferred that are not only economical but also have ability to perform multiple functions. This will reduce the cost to buy individual tools for different purposes.

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John, You say that the ER collets are used in a production environment for Workholding ?? Thats where they are even LESS suited . [ Production workholding ] although, I will happily eat humble pie if i'm proved wrong.

Surface finish – The ball nose end mill with 4 flute provides smoother finish because it has more flutes compared to 2 flutes. It is therefore used on materials where more smoothness is required on slotting, plunging etc.

Thanks Jason for moving this to it's own thread. I have e-mailed Rego Fix Re, the ER collet system and what it's primary purpose was. as soon as I hear back it will be posted in this thread.

The main challenge is the construction of shape of ball at the tool’s tip which is manufactured using relief that creates ball’s radius at the end of the ball mill. Various other parameters are set on the machine to deliver the required ball mill.

Various cutting tools in CNC milling are used to plunge, slot or make 3D contouring. The ball nose end mill is also one of those cutting tools. Its unique manufacturing and utilization in the CNC machining process makes it widely popular among machinists.

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On the contrary, the soft material produces long chips and so it requires cutting tool having more flutes. For softer materials, 4 flute end mills are used.

Nick, Have to disagree there. They were originally designed for toolholding, more specifically Drills / reamers. I use them for a lot of workholding as do many others and they are great , but workholding is not what they were designed for. There are far better collets than ER for workholding. even as a milling chuck they are far from the best , they are super at taking axial loads, but not at their strongest with Radial loads. I like them but am not blind to their shortcomings

The ball nose end mills are great cutting tools that delivers smooth rounded surfaced compared to other end mills. Due to its functionality, it is preferred in making 3D contouring and rounded edges. The ball nose with 2 flutes are used on hard materials like metal while 4 flutes ball nose end mill deliver smoother finish and used to mill, plunge or slot softer materials.

Tony, nobody said anything about a company SPECIFYING how a part was held., this debate is purely about the pros / cons of the ER system. I happen to think there is NO WAY a Production company would be using them for workholding and others say they do. There is no mention from anyone about any firm specifying how a part is held and . as you say, why would they ? that is left to the firm making the part [s]

Home › Forums › Workshop Techniques › Pros and Cons of the ER collet system This topic has 280 replies, 36 voices, and was last updated 27 September 2016 at 11:59 by Neil Wyatt. Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 281 total) 1 2 3 … 10 11 12 → Author Posts 4 September 2016 at 18:10 #254112 Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114 Posted by Nigel Bennett on 01/09/2016 17:28:23:

In earlier times, India, Turkey, Euro, Egypt and USA etc. utilized 2 flute ball nose end mills but with the growing demand and increased production cost, they have moved to more flexible and versatile 4 flute ball nose end mill. The survey reported the strategy has saved much production costs of CNC machinists.

The ball nose end mill’s cutter diameter is responsible to deliver required width of the slot. The cutter diameter also affects the chip removal rate during side milling. Therefore, before purchasing, it is necessary to ensure what is the tool’s cutter diameter and will it deliver the requirements.

On the contrary, the 4 flute ball nose end mill is mostly used for side milling and surface milling. Increasing the number of flutes in an end mill will deliver smoother finished surface but simultaneously increase chip load and lesser chip evacuation. But ball nose end mill with 4 flutes is widely used because it works on most of the material and also performs somewhat similar function to 2 flute end mill. So there is no necessity for specifically purchasing ball nose end mill with 2 flutes if 4 flute ball nose end mill can be afforded.

Ok some Herbert saying it’s not good for radial loads but where is the proof ? Most modern VMC can put that much radial load on they can swipe vises off beds and snap 20mm cutters like carrots but the collet cannot handle a radial load. ?

I watched the video, not by Guhring, although one of their employees is being interviewed. It's interesting that the hydraulic chuck comes out far worse than the ER collet chuck. The 'high performance' chuck shown isn't specified as to type.

I know for a fact you can but CNC 4th axis with ER nose fittings and these cost plus 5K. So who would bother to manufacture these at that price if they were inferior ?

The 4 flute ball nose end mill works on various hard materials and also works on soft materials where 2 flute end mills fails. This is what gives an edge to 4 flute end mills. The good surface finish, faster chip evacuation and longer wear time of 4 flute end mill are why they are more widely used across the globe by many product manufacturers.

Following are the technical specification of 4 flute end mills that make them superior and recommended over 2 flute ball nose end mill:

In this article, we will cover the basic function between 2 flutes and 4 flutes end mills, what is the function of ball nose end mill in CNC milling, and finally, why users are now preferring 4 flute ball nose end mill over 2 flute ball nose end mill.