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Looking to tap into fiberglass besides keeping tap cool and not use coolant. My plan is to use cooling air to keep tap cool. My question is being it’s a blind hole would it be best to form tap??? Tapped hole size being. 1 1/8-12 UNC-2B depth of thread is 1.250 deep.

Your article states: a ¼-20 roll tap requires a #1 drill size for 65% thread. What is a 65% thread ? Is a greater percent of thread possible or important ?

With the tap drill formulas referenced (see below) … What “Class of fit” (Inch “H” value) (Metric “D” value) is this formula written for? If you have a low H or D the hole should be smaller. If you have a High H or D the hole should be larger.

I have worked with formed threads on some of our assemblies and I’m not a fan. If the drilled hole is slightly too large, it seem that a double helix can form.

Cut tapdrill size

By the way, of course the average person can tell the difference between a diamond with proportions of Good, Very Good, Excellent and Ideal, assuming that they take a moment to actually look at the diamonds, beyond the “Disneyland Effect” created by traditional jewelry store lighting, which pumps so much light into a diamond that crushed rock quartz is likely to look amazing! We sit down with clients all the time in our office, who ask this very same question, and who are easily able to distinguish the difference between diamonds of different proportions and cut qualities, by the volume of light return and sparkle factor.

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In reality, the volume of light return, and the sparkle factor of a diamond, are going to look quite different between a diamond with those measurements, where the average 41.0 degree pavilion angle is based upon a low of 40.8 degrees and a high of 41.2 degrees, and a diamond where it is based upon a low of 40.6 degrees and a high of 41.4 degrees; and this premise holds true for the crown angle, star facet lengths, and lower girdle facet lengths as well… so it’s like one big moving puzzle, and adjusting only one angle on the diamond is akin to changing two spark plugs on an eight cylinder engine and calling it good.

I’ve been programming for almost ten years, been using roll form taps for about 6 years and never once have seen a “double helix” from the minor diameter being oversize. Usually, a oversize minor dia. prior to tapping – will result in the pitch diameter and minor diameter being oversize after tapping (leading to the acceptance of a no-go thread gauge).

Did you know that Thread Forming Taps require good lubrication? But why is that the case if chips are not being evacuated, and how does lubrication enter the part with such a limited area between the tool and the perimeter of the hole being threaded? Despite the fact that chips aren’t being formed or evacuated, cutting oils aid the Form Tap as it interacts with the part material, and reduces friction and heat generation. Lube vent grooves are narrow channels engineered into the side of Forming Taps that are designed to provide just enough room for lubricant to make its way into – and out of – a part.

Another interesting tidbit: A form tap may slightly raise (a couple thousandths of an inch) the area surrounding the top and bottom surfaces of the hole. A larger chamfer will help eliminate this raised area resulting a flatter, more even surface after form tapping. Or you can just stone or grind the surface after tapping if a larger chamfer is unacceptable.

Thread formingvsthread cutting

Needless to say, we will need the diamond shipped to us for physical evaluation before we can provide you with any accurate insight about whether the diamond has the potential to be improved by being re-cut. One of the things which we will with the diamond upon receipt is run a manufacturers Sarin report on the diamond, to determine the exact measurements for each section of the diamond, so that we have a better idea of what we’re working with and develop a plan for improving the diamond if possible.

Are thread forming taps ok to use to chase threads in cast iron and aluminum? I am looking for something a bit better than thread chasers as far as quality.

There are a lot of factors to take into consideration before deciding to have a diamond re-cut by Brian Gavin, or any other diamond cutter for that matter. Not the least of which is what the potential yield of carat weight is going to be after the diamond is re-cut, assuming of course that everything goes as planned, which is not always the case since diamond cutting involves taking a crystal and subjecting it to high pressure and extreme heat.

Eric, You have found what I believe is the greatest downside to thread form tapping. If all you ever do is run the machine that taps the hole it likely goes unnoticed but if you are involved in doing the assembly work that employs a formed thread where the tap drill / hole was slightly large you get what looks like a double helix. This apparent dbl. helix is the result of the thread crest being incomplete as there was insufficient material to upset and you actually end up with a slight trough or valley where the crest should be. The finer the thread the better roll taps work but if there is not enough material to complete the thread, they are a TERROR to assemble even for experienced operators.

Thread formingtap

Without knowing the exact proportions of your 2.03 carat diamond, it is practically impossible for me to provide you with any insight as to what would be involved with fine tuning the proportions, but keep in mind that there would be a substantial decrease in value if the weight of the finished diamond came in less than 2.00 carats, because of the increase in price which occurs between the 1.99 – 2.00 carat marks.

Earlier this week, a client asked me to provide him with an opinion on a diamond which he was comparing to a Brian Gavin Signature diamond, the diamond which he was looking at weighed 2.03 carats, was graded by the GIA with an overall cut grade of GIA Excellent, and had a total depth of 61.1% with a table diameter of 58% and a crown angle of 34.0 degrees with a pavilion angle of 41.2 degrees. Punch those numbers into the Holloway Cut Adviser and you’ll get a score of 3.1 Very Good, which Garry Holloway apparently feels is “Worth buying if the price is right” based upon the comment which follows the score; but if you drop just the pavilion angle measurement down to 41.0 degrees, then the score improves to 1.5 Excellent, which the comment then indicates is within range of Tolkowsky Ideal Cut (TIC) and the program indicates that the scores for Light Return and Fire improve from Very Good to Excellent.

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This would not be possible. Since you are reshaping the material and the material is now powdered coated, you will not have the required material to be able to form your new thread, and instead form your thread on the paint itself.

Rolltapdrill size chart

I learned quite a lot about thread-forming taps by reading this post. Thanks for publishing the post about unique facts of thread-forming taps. I will share the article with my colleagues.

Drill Size = Major Diameter – [(0.0068 x desired % of thread) / Threads Per Inch]Drill Size (mm) = Major Diameter – [(0.0068 x desired % of thread x pitch (mm)]

A “double helix” condition could only be possible if the threads had multiple start angles. I’m not entirely positive why you would be noticing a “double helix” forming within your threads but my theories are

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How are taper pipe taps identified

As an example, a ¼-20 cut tap requires a #7 drill size for the starter hole, whereas a ¼-20 roll tap requires a #1 drill size for 65% thread.

Another factor which needs to be taken into account, are the inclusions which are present within the diamond, and you should be aware that the clarity grade of the diamond might change from being re-cut, depending on the nature of the inclusions, it could improve or become lower. Likewise, the color grade of the diamond is subject to change, since diamond color changes within the layers of the diamond crystal.

Great question! The formula is for a standard tap, 1/4 – 20 H6 being the standard. For each H-limit above or below you would add or subtract .0005. For H7 it is +.0005, for H5 it is -.0005.

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1) the tap is programmed to go back into the same hole twice – leading to different start angles 2) (less likely) the tap is spinning within the collet during the tapping operation

RethreadingTap

When using a Form Tap, chips are not formed, nor is any part material evacuated (Yes, you read that right). With thread forming, the tool is void of any flutes, as chip evacuation is not a concern. Form Taps quite literally mold the workpiece, rather than cut it, to produce threads. Material is displaced within a hole to make way for the threads being formed.

However in this particular instance, it’s not likely that we would try to re-cut this diamond to improve visual performance, because any improvements that we try to make to the crown section are likely to decrease the crown angle below the 34.0 carat mark, and that would change the balance of brilliance and dispersion. If somebody wanted to improve a diamond with these proportions and carat weight is a factor (and it always is) then the best and most cost effective option is most likely to sell the diamond privately, and then buy a diamond which is already cut to the proportions which they desire.

Thread forming taps have no cutting and edge and do not produce chips. You should be able to chase an existing thread with this tool, although thread forming taps are not designed to remove burrs.

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Thread forming produces much stronger threads than conventional tapping methods, due to the displacements of the grain of the metal in the workpiece. Further, cutting taps produce chips, which may interfere with the tapping process.

Not all materials are well suited for Thread Forming Taps. In fact, attempting to use a tap in the wrong material can result in significant part and tool damage. The best materials for this unique type of operation include aluminum, brass, copper, 300 stainless steel, and leaded steel. In other words, any material that leaves a stringy chip is a good candidate for cold forming threads. Materials that leave a powdery chip, such as cast iron, are likely too brittle, resulting in ineffective, porous threads.

Form tapdrill chart

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Thread Forming Taps are incredibly efficient, as their tool life is substantial (Up to 20x longer than cutting taps), as they have no cutting edges to dull. Further, Thread Forms can be run at faster speeds (Up to 2x faster than Cutting Taps).

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Yes Titan USA stocks STI Forming Taps as standards. Here is the link to the general purpose taps https://www.titancuttingtools.com/products/tapping/general-purpose-taps

Great question! The percentage of thread refers to the percentage of height where basic thread height and external and internal threads are engaged. The percentage of thread is calculated by finding your total engaged length (EL) and your total overall length (OL). You then divide EL by OL and multiply by 100 to get your percentage, so your equation looks like this, Percentage of Thread = EL/OL*100. Some jobs require a certain thread percentage but if nothing is specified we suggest using between a 60%-75% thread percentage to help your tool last longer.

My 2.03 RB (GIA Ex) gets a "Good" HCA rating and VG AGS, but changing the pavilion by only .2 makes it "Very Good" HCA and Ex AGS. In your professional opinion can the human eye even detect this .2 degree difference? Thanks for your time. – Kevin K.

Thanks for the reply. My experience with roll tapped holes is on the user end only. I have never used a roll tap to thread a hole. The problem I was referring to was an improperly formed crest on the rolled thread. The displaced metal didn’t fully form into the crest but left, what looked like with an eye loupe, a second, smaller helical pattern on the incompletely formed crest. In the instance I’m primarily referring to, it even caused difficulty starting the screw. My guess as to why this happened is an oversized hole to start with leaving not enough metal to displace into the crest. Does this seem consistent with your experience in actually using roll taps to thread holes?

When selecting a Tap, you must be familiar with the following formula, which will help a machinist determine the proper drill size needed for creating the starter hole, before a Thread Forming Tap is used to finish the application:

Unlike most CNC cutting tools, Thread Forming Taps, otherwise known as Form Taps, Forming Taps, or Roll Taps, work by molding the workpiece rather than cutting it. Because of this, Form Taps do not contain any flutes, as there is no cutting action taking place, nor are there any chips to evacuate. Below are 8 unique facts of Thread Forming Taps (and some may surprise you).

Formingtapdrill size

The downfall of the Holloway Cut Adviser (HCA) is that it only takes the average measurements of the diamond into account and those are actually based upon the average of eight individual measurements per section.

Hi There, Excellent Blog, Thanks a lot for sharing about Thread Forming Taps. I have been looking for so long for this type of information. Keep Sharing….

In conventional tapping applications, as with most machining applications, chip evacuation is a concern. This is especially true in blind holes, or holes with a bottom, as chips created at the very bottom of the hole oftentimes have a long distance to travel before being efficiently evacuated. With form taps, however, chip removal is never a concern.

Hello Eric. Yes that can happen, but it’s not really a problem of the forming taps. You could say forming taps require a tighter tolerance hole in that regard, but the hole should not be that much oversized anyway, even when using regular taps.

These 8 unique facts about thread forming taps are very beneficial for us. Like cutting oils allow for reduced friction, how a simple formula can help you find the right drill size and the threads produced are stronger than conventional tapping threads.

Can thread forming taps be used to repair existing threads? Including threads in material that was powder coat painted after the original hole was taped.

Tap Drill Chart - Standard 2B ; 2-56, #50 .070 ; 3-48, #47 .0785 ; 3-56, #45 .0820 ; 4-40, #43 .0890 ...

Drill Size = Major Diameter – [(0.0068 x desired % of thread) / Threads Per Inch] Drill Size (mm) = Major Diameter – [(0.0068 x desired % of thread x pitch (mm)]