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I think you left out force vectors during cutting. This can influence tool defection and taper on the side wall on the part. The force vectors are different magnitudes between climb and convectional cutting, so this impacts work holding and this parts or this walls.

With more modern machines now compensating for backlash or utilize backlash eliminators, it has become a much easier strategy to adopt within shops. While we went over some reasons why climb milling is not an effective strategy above, here are some reasons why a machinist may want to explore climb milling:

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Similar results are true for the machining of aluminum. Whereas the wood industry sees only material variations such as density and moisture content, aluminum machinists typically need only to worry about the hardness and temper of the part being cut. Using high speed steel or solid carbide spirals, a few specific cutter geometries machined almost all of the product being produced.

There are two distinct ways to cut materials when CNC milling: Conventional Milling (Up) and Climb Milling (Down). The difference between these two techniques is the relationship of the rotation of the cutter to the direction of feed. In Conventional Milling, the cutter rotates against the direction of the feed. During Climb Milling, the cutter rotates with the feed.

Have seen this article several times. One consideration is roughing, my observation is that the load against the cutter when cutting in the conventional direction is lower and reduces the risk of tool breakage. Another is where the tool-paths leave “posts” in corners and so-fourth when hogging out parts, conventional milling will not grab into a post and break the cutter. Another application is when making long thin flats in rod shaped parts either on a indexing head or on a swiss type automatic lathe through a guide bushing, the conventional path will produce less taper and more parallel surfaces. Just a few thoughts.

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Many machining spindles require 2000 rpm or more, to provide adequate ... Feed Rate = Spindle Speed (RPM) * Number of Flutes * Chip Load (inches) ...

chatter mark in American English. noun. 1. a mark left by a tool that has been chattering.

CNC and non-CNC router tooling for plastics has increased in both breadth and depth in the market place. Router bit manufacturers must attempt to stay ahead of both the burgeoning plastic development industry and the focused attention that CNC router manufacturers have given the plastic fabricators. This trend will continue and the number of application specific tooling will increase correspondingly along with the growth of the demanding market. Continue to look for new innovations from the leader in the router tooling market as both the quality and the speed of the cut is increased in the next few years.

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This is great info. I have always conventional milled with face mill to remove the scale off of titanium. Tool life is increased and getting under that scale to machine it off instead of slamming the insert into the scale each time. Once scale has been removed, go back to climb cutting.

A 60 year old worn out manual Bridgeport is all I have to work with. (It is in better shape than my 65 year old worn out body.) I rarely climb mill anything, specially not steel. But if the cut is really light, and I want a good finish, I climb mill. , I apply some drag with the table lock screw, and that seems to eliminate the chatter.

I have a Warco 16B milling machine. This is a medium size manual hobby mill. I am confused as people recommend Conventional and Climb milling in about even numbers, this goes for YouTube too. What would you recommend on this type of machine? Your help would be appreciated as I last worked in industry in 1979 so I am extremely out of date. I generally mill Conventionally.

This is one of those left hand cutters! How about turning the tool, and cutter the correct direction. G41 climb cutting on the right side. G42 or conventional cutting on the left. Sorry I couldn’t help myself.

Routing and trimming has become one of the most common operations performed during the manufacture of plastic components and finished goods during the last ten years. CNC routing has taken those operations to the next level and allowed plastic fabricators to put a finished edge on products that previously may have needed further finishing operations. Interestingly, this ability was not an original intent of the routing industry; conversely routing was historically a means of quickly shaping and cutting wood and aluminum with occasional forays into the plastic and plastic composites market. With the explosive growth of market demand for thermoformed plastic components, POP displays, and thermoset plastic goods, one router tooling manufacturer began to develop tooling that was dedicated solely to the machining of plastics.

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The tradeoff of high rake angle in a cutting tool is that it becomes very aggressive. If anyone has ever used dedicated CNC plastic tooling in hand routers, they can attest to the fact that it wants to "run" and can sometimes rip the router from your grasp. The solution for this aggressiveness has been to change both the angle and type of clearance put on soft plastic tooling. By using a low angle radial (or eccentric) relief grind on the clearance angle (see Fig. 3), it is possible to "calm" the tool down and allow the high rake angle to cut freely while still maintaining control of the cutting tool. This radial clearance is designed to rub ever so slightly along the cut surface and provide some stability to the cutting tool. One or two degrees of too much relief, and the cutting tool will begin to chatter. The resultant knife marks along the cutting edge produce a subsequent poor finish. One or two degrees of too little relief and the router bit will rub too much, producing heat and melting the material.

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In addition, conventional milling should also be utilized on casting, forgings or when the part is case hardened. This is due to the cut beginning under the surface of the material, where it will gradually build a chip. Climb milling into these materials will see maximum chip thickness on engagement, which could lead to premature failure of the cutting edge due to the forces generated. print

Like soft plastics, hard plastic tooling benefits from an increased rake angle that allows the material to be broken away much easier than if you were using a lower rake wood or aluminum tool. Unlike soft plastic tooling, however, the need for a dramatically increased rake angle is not present. Because of the willingness of most hard plastics to release their bonds in response to a sharp cutting edge, a moderate increase in rake angle will usually produce the best results. Commensurately, the clearance angle does not need to be lowered as much to control the tool and frequently a straight relief angle is all that is required to control the tool and prevent chatter.

As previously stated, traditionally conventional milling has been the common choice for most machinists. This is where the cutting edge of the tool is actually rotating away from the direction of the feed. An example of this is seen in Figure 2 below. Until recently, this has been the common choice due to backlash however, the rise of climb milling has caused machinists or machines to adapt and compensate for this issue.

Plastics machining, on the other hand, has completely changed the router industry outlook on cutter design. Each plastic manufactured can exhibit different cutting characteristics and may respond differently to different cutting geometries. This has led to an explosion in the number of cutter styles offered to cut plastics as well as the development of new technologies used in the manufacture and development of the router bits. Because of the immense number of variables associated with routing plastic (composition, thickness, temperature) and the continuing importance placed on the ability to produce a finished edge without secondary operations, it has become necessary to design tools that are extremely specific in their application.

Great article. I’ve had to use conventional milling when for example, I’d have my thin unsupported part sticking out of work holding with the tool path contouring around the part (think milling end while cutting a part in a lathe) with the material flexing would cause snapping while climbing because it wants to take a large bite as opposed to ramping the cut in. But yeah, 95% or more is climbing.

Thank you for the question Dustin! We would suggest conventional milling when your material has a rough surface, such as cast iron, or is anodized because when conventional milling your cut is scooping underneath the surface to remove your material making it easier on your tool. Also, you want to conventional mill when using a dovetail cutter that has a weak neck diameter because this will help relieve the pressure on the neck of your tool.

Hard plastic suffers from the same chatter and melt problems as soft plastic and it must be controlled through the same tight tolerances for rake and clearance angles held by soft plastic cutting tools. Hard plastics also exhibit a cutting effect that is rarely seen in softer materials which is "cratering". Because of the manner in which hard plastic is machined, if the rake angle becomes too high, the tendency for the material to break and release its bonds is greatly exaggerated and the chips will actually pull additional material from within the cut edge leaving a "cratered" or dimpled surface along the finished edge. By tightly controlling the designed wedge angle of the cutting tool, this can normally be prevented for a reasonable range of cutting speeds.

Climb Milling is generally the best way to machine parts today since it reduces the load from the cutting edge, leaves a better surface finish, and improves tool life. During Conventional Milling, the cutter tends to dig into the workpiece and may cause the part to be cut out of tolerance.

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Whereas soft plastics respond best to "O" flutes, hard plastics generally rout best with modified "O" flute or straight rake face geometry. This combined with the smaller chips produced, allow multi-fluted spirals to effectively cut the material with a superior finish and good chip extraction.

The general groups listed before are just the beginning of the categories that plastic cutting tools are designed for. There are many sub-groups that require modification of the basic cutting geometry formula to take into account thickness, temperature, fixturing concerns, as well as the combination of multiple materials such as acrylic/ABS (a hard plastic and a soft plastic used in the many bathtubs and liners), laminated phenolics (desktops and lab table tops), and co-extruded PVC/ABS (fence posts).

Machining of reinforced plastics requires that great care be made when choosing one of these two tooling types and that the spindle RPMs and feed rates are matched to the cutting tool selected, as each requires different cutting properties and heat characteristics to function best. Cutting tools typically consist of spirals and straight rake face tools with either radial clearance (for low RPMs, strong cutting edges) and straight clearance (for high RPMs, free cutting action).

Soft plastics are routed by removing long, curly chips from the face of the material being machined. (See Fig.1) Normally the release of these chips is quite easy and there is little or no instance of burring or fuzzing at the edge as seen in the comparable release of similar chips from wood or aluminum. The nature of wood and aluminum necessitates that the wedge angle (see Fig. 2) of the router bit cutting edge be large. This translates to a lower rake angle and a lower clearance angle. If the wedge angle is reduced, premature wear of the cutting edge occurs due to the abrasiveness and/or hardness of the material being cut. With soft plastics, however, the abrasive and impact wear is greatly reduced and the rake angle can be increased significantly, resulting in a much easier release of the chip from the material. This allows faster feed rates and less movement of the part due to cutting pressure.

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Great explanation of the differences between climb milling and conventional milling! I appreciate how you highlighted the advantages of climb milling, especially in reducing tool wear. It’s very informative for someone looking to refine their machining techniques. Thanks for sharing!

Great question Graham! There are many factors that go into choosing which method is best for you. Please send an email to [email protected] with all your information and they will be able to help you out as soon as possible.

As stated before, router tooling was originally segmented into two market areas - wood and aluminum. Wood tooling is generally a carbide tipped or solid carbide tool with cutting geometry that allows the fibrous material being cut to be sheared off cleanly, leaving no chips or grain fuzzing. The designs were further refined as applications began calling for faster material removal rates, better finishes, or as new wood composites began to enter the market place. Even with the dozens of specialized tooling lines that service the wood industry and the hundreds of refinements in cutter body material and shape, the basic underlying cutting geometry remained the same. A few specific combinations of rake angle and clearance angle (see Fig. 1 for definitions) in conjunction with the helix angle of the cutter (0° for straight tooling and up to 35° for spirals), combine to yield the results that the wood fabrication industry desires.

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Additional factors in the design of soft plastic tooling involve the removal of the chips once they have been cut from the material. If the chips clog the passageway on their journey out they will heat up very rapidly and cause poor part finish and premature tool wear. The tooling design solution has been to increase the flute area the chips are allowed to flow in by reducing the number of flutes (thereby increasing the allowable flute opening) and by using "O" flute geometry. "O" flutes allow the chips to form naturally and follow the natural flow of the cutting geometry without hitting sharp corners that might slow their exit from the cut passage.

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I like what you said about chip width working. I need a milling machine for some steel. I’ll have to get a dye-cutter that is discounted.

Reinforced plastics are frequently a polyester, epoxy, or phenolic base with either a fibrous or glass material woven or otherwise embedded to add rigidity to the composite. While this can add significant strength to the material itself, it causes it to be extremely difficult to machine.

There are two different methods for attacking the tooling design problem associated with machining abrasive plastics. The first involves using a high rake angle and high clearance angle to allow the bit to cut freely and aggressively and reduce the amount of heat built up during the cutting operation (this heat is a major factor of accelerated tool wear in these operations). The adverse side to this is that the resultant wedge angle is very small and a weak cutting edge is continually presented to the reinforced plastic which can lead to chipping of the tool and a general break-down of the cutting edge.

There can only be one way to interpret the cut because machines only turn in one direction. In the examples the view has to be from under the workpiece looking up at the tool

Added uses for conventional cutting: Never climb cut across the end of an upstanding thin rib in aluminum or plastic (You will rip it off). Use reduced feed and conventional cut it or use multiple small depth cuts. Commonly made cutting to length T or L extrusions. You’ll only make this mistake once. It helps to conventional cut torched or burnt out steel plate rough profiles first, then switch to climb cut after you mill through the slag. Same principal as case hardened material. Corn-Cob or serrated cutters work nice here too.

Hard plastics machine much differently from their soft plastic counterparts. The largest difference is in their production of chips. Those machining wood, aluminum, or soft plastic are used to the sight of large chips ejecting from the router bit path and having enough weight to actually carry for some distance before landing on the router table. Hard plastic chips appear very different and are normally very small shards that resemble crystalline fragments or dust. Unlike soft plastic chips, hard plastic waste is formed by frequently breaking small, individual chunks of material from the base material. (See Fig. 4) This necessitates different cutter geometries from that seen in any other application.

However, though Climb Milling is often the current preferred way to machine parts, there are times when Conventional Milling is the necessary milling style. One such example is if your machine does not counteract backlash. In this case, Conventional Milling should be implemented. Without accounting for backlash, breakage can occur due to the forces within the machine during tool engagement.

Conventional Milling is the traditional approach when cutting because the backlash, or the play between the lead screw and the nut in the machine table, is eliminated as seen in Figure 1 below. Recently, however, Climb Milling has been recognized as the preferred way to approach a workpiece since most machines today compensate for backlash or have a backlash eliminator.

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That is not to say there aren’t benefits to climb milling. For example, this strategy offers a machinist more control and less vibration than its climb milling counterpart. Similarly, for materials that traditionally chatter or tear, conventional milling would be the proper strategy to choose. On the other hand, here are some reasons why it might be most beneficial to adopt a climb milling strategy:

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“Conventional Milling should be… utilized on casting, forgings” In my head, I logically organize castings as least processed, forgings as most processed, and everything else (hot rolled, cold rolled, extruded) somewhere in between. So to me, that part seems to say ‘use conventional milling for everything’, which is obviously not right. Could you show me where I went wrong,? More specific examples, like case hardening, why a particular direction of cut is preferred for a chunk of metal with unknown provenance.

A general discussion on plastic cutting tool geometry can be started by dividing plastic into three general categories: hard, soft, and reinforced. The cutters geometries designed for plastic vary widely, much more so than their counterparts in wood and aluminum. For this reason, it is much easier for the sake of discussion to break the plastics up into categories that reflect how they actually respond to machining.

It depends on your perspective. Are they showing a view looking down at the work piece or looking up from the workpiece.

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The other method employed in the design of these special cutting tools is to present a very strong cutting edge to the material by greatly lowering the rake angle and slightly decreasing the clearance angle. This method reduces the chipping of the cutting edge but can lead to tremendous heat buildup. The best application of these tools requires decreased spindle speeds to reduce the material heating but this can lead to increased cutting forces and cause part movement.

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As machinists are always trying to find ways to increase efficiency and tool life, climb milling has gotten a lot of recent traction in the space. Less heat is generated within the tool, and friction is more easily mitigated. These two alone lead to longer tool life, allowing for more parts completed per tool, lowering a shops bottom line. Also, climb milling can lead to a better surface finish due to how the chips are formed at the cutting edge.

Hey there, first of all thank you so much for this post and honestly I was searching for the same information from last few days. Keep posting and keep sharing..

Thanks for this very clear and informative explanation. It has been decades since I worked in a factory. Back then the Bridgeport milling machines had terrible backlash. They would chatter or jump when using climb milling. Plus, if one was approaching the end of a cut, one wouldn’t know if the tool would grab at that point and pull the work past the past the desired end point. I almost exclusively used conventional milling and couldn’t understand why many people on YT now talk about using climb milling.