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Just measured a couple flutes. An Eb short foot flute and a D short foot flute I have to hand and the sounding length of 527 looks more in line with a D flute than an Eb. My apologies. Please show us pictures , maker , more measurements and we can make a better educated guess from afar. Though nothing beats having the flute, restoring it, rehydration, and RTTA tuner testing to really know it’s intended pitch

Also “band” flute means flutes played in a military style flute corps. With Bb treble flutes, Eb, F piccolos, Eb flutes, and sometimes low Bb flutes. Most but not all band flutes are high pitched. Even today many flute bands in Scotland and Northern Ireland play in English high pitch.

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All I can tell you is that a conoid flute (such as antique Rudall & Rose, or a Wylde) - that is, cylindrical headjoint, tapering body, a sounding length of approx. 580mm is a D flute. You should be able to play at A=440 with a slight headjoint slide extension, although intonation may vary depending on how the toneholes are positioned. Ah, here were some old discussions we had on C&F. This one sums it up: http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86812&start=0#p1061020 Some of the original data collection for Terry McGee’s chart may have come from THIS thread, and has some explanation of what he’s measuring & why: http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85642 Terry has a Conclusions page that will make your head spin even more: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/conclusions.html

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Martin Doyles flutes in the key of D are noticably shorter than most other flutes. The only reliable way is to check the note A = 440hz and then check the rest of the notes are in tune. ( i’m talking here about older flute in particular as they can vary).

The easy answer to your question is that a flute in D is about two feet long. One in Eb is noticeably shorter, one in C is longer if it is a simple-system flute, and anything else is way shorter. Sounding length is only important to determine if it is older or modern tuning, but as regards the key of the flute, D flutes are easy to spot.

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Old Philharmonic Pitch (London Philharmonic, that is) was A=452, the British standard in the 19th century. It’s why you’ll see so many of the old “Irish flutes” with the tuning slide pulled far out. That really doesn’t work, because the internal tuning of the flute is thrown off. I’ve read that many modern “Irish flute” makers based their instruments on fine-playing old flutes which happen to be made to A=452. To make them play at A=440 they lengthened the head. Patrick Olwell, noted that in the 18th century flutemakers, to deal with the variety of pitches that professional flutists had to deal with, sold flutes with a set of upper-midsection joints. This way the critical relationships of the bore and fingerholes of the upper hand could be made correct for each pitch. So, when he designed his flute, it was the midsection upper bore he modified to achieve A=440 rather than merely lengthening the head. That’s what he said in an interview, anyhow. Anyhow if you pull out the tuning slide of a vintage flute a bit, not too far, you’ll be able to hear approximately what pitch the flute was originally made to play at. Shoving it all the way in, or pulling it out a couple inches, won’t.

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High pitch 452 was really only the latter half of the 19th century. Many 19th century English flutes are pitched between 420-430. And many can reach lower and higher pitches. Some researchers (TerryMcGee and others) have noted that sometimes makers of the 19th century may have just shortened the head to reach higher pitch without rescaling. It was only when high pitch became a widespread popular standard that rescaling was done. So many of these flutes actually having better intonation at a lower pitch. In other words it’s not all black and white. Terry McGee uses the terms first generation (Potters / Monzani / )second generation “improved era”( Nicholsons / Mid Rudall and Rose,) and third generation (Pratten’s Perfected , later large holes Rudall Rose and Carte) You will find Rudalls that fall into all three “generations” It is true that many makers base their designs on Third generation flutes of which many were aimed at high pitch.

ah yes i probably do… thanks for pointing me to this resource… that’s helped a bit. so… what i get from this is firstly that it’s not a reliable indicator of key due to variability in the tuning slide length and secondly that it also depends on what kind of flute it is. the chart given is helpful… but does it work for working backwards from knowing the sounding length to being able to identify the type or the key?… as if you find an antique flute, this is probably the way around that you’d want to be doing it. for instance… if i have a sounding length measurement of 527, can i work backwards in the chart to say ‘ah, this must be an Eb band flute’. (and also, what does ‘band’ mean in this instance). i notice also that the chart includes number of keys in the description. would this be a relevant factor in determining the key from sounding length (i.e. would a flute with a SL measurement of 527 vary in key depending on whether it had five keys or none?)

my apologies to all for being slow to respond again on this and gratitute for all of the information. i feel much better informed and equipped now to navigate the sea of secondhand and vintage flutes. much appreciated!

The number of keys is only listed to differentiate between long and short foot flutes really. A 1-4 key foot of the same design will have the same sounding length. Providing it does not have vent holes. For instance the lower keys came before long F and C key. Or a modern flute could have vent holes so a six key can have either a short or long foot . Eight key, long foot. I would guess a sounding length of 527 would mean an Eb (or high pitched D )obviously short foot flute. What else can you tell us? Maker? Date? Things are also player dependent. Someone who plays very sharp wil think a high pitched D tuning slide in is an Eb flute until they realise there are difficulties with intonation with the slide in. Many high pitched D flutes can be played at a 440 with a long slide extension though response is not as good as when aiming higher. Ultimately chiff and fipple and Facebook Flute history channel will provide you with better answers especially if you provide photos and complete measurements Take care

hello. can anybody offer me an explanation of how to determine the key of a flute based on its ‘sound length’? and what range of sound length would i be looking for for a flute in the key of D? many thanks.